{"id":349256,"date":"2017-01-09T11:27:30","date_gmt":"2017-01-09T19:27:30","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/cm-edgetun.pages.dev\/en-us\/research\/?post_type=msr-research-item&#038;p=349256"},"modified":"2018-10-16T22:01:50","modified_gmt":"2018-10-17T05:01:50","slug":"130-definability-undefinability-real-order-background","status":"publish","type":"msr-research-item","link":"https:\/\/cm-edgetun.pages.dev\/en-us\/research\/publication\/130-definability-undefinability-real-order-background\/","title":{"rendered":"Definability and Undefinability with Real Order at the Background"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Let R be the integer order, that is the set of real numbers together with the standard order of reals. Let I be the set of integer numbers, let Y range over subsets of I, let P(I,X) be a monadic second-order formula about R, and let F be the collection of all subsets X of I such that P(I,X) holds in R. Even though F is a collection of subsets of I, its definition may involve quantification over reals and over sets of reals. In that sense, F is defined with the background of real order. Is that background essential or not? Maybe there is a monadic second-order formula Q(X) about I that defines F (so that F is the collection of all subsets X of I such that Q(X) holds in I). We prove that this is indeed the case, for any monadic second-order formula P(I,X). The claim remains true if the set I of integers is replaced above with any closed subset of R. The claim fails for some open subsets.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Let R be the integer order, that is the set of real numbers together with the standard order of reals. Let I be the set of integer numbers, let Y range over subsets of I, let P(I,X) be a monadic second-order formula about R, and let F be the collection of all subsets X of [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"featured_media":0,"template":"","meta":{"msr-url-field":"","msr-podcast-episode":"","msrModifiedDate":"","msrModifiedDateEnabled":false,"ep_exclude_from_search":false,"_classifai_error":"","msr-author-ordering":null,"msr_publishername":"","msr_publisher_other":"","msr_booktitle":"","msr_chapter":"","msr_edition":"Journal of Symbolic Logic","msr_editors":"","msr_how_published":"","msr_isbn":"","msr_issue":"2","msr_journal":"Journal of Symbolic 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